Sunday, October 24, 2010

Abuse of Power

We, the modern Indian upper middle and upper classes, have been by and large supposedly taught to reject blind faith and to think rationally thanks to the boost that «scientific temper» received ever since our beloved Uncle, Chacha Nehru, ensured that it was made one of the Fundamental Duties of every citizen of India to develop a «scientific temper». Without elaborating much on this subject as that can take the space of 10 blogs or more, I directly arrive upon the problem of the blind faith that is conferred upon doctors. Since physicians are perceived as men and women of science who work with the sole and single-minded objective of curing a malady or alleviating the troubles caused by a disease based on their medical studies, there is apparently no need felt to question the remedies they prescribe (including medicines and surgeries), their training (good marks ≠ good doctors always) or even whether they are psychologically sound enough to be in the close proximity of their patient.

The recent rape of a Vashi lady patient under anaesthesia by Vishal Vanne (I refuse to prefix his name with Dr.) did not come as a shock to me. It definitely did shock and anger my parents, especially my father who is an orthopaedic surgeon himself. He is of the opinion that Vishal Vanne should be bobbitised as that is the only punishment fit for him. I, for one, was only stoic, only wondering whether more such things could have come to light earlier, had patients not been under complete anaesthesia. A late-night conversation at my hostel with a roommate 5 years ago had shocked, outraged and numbed me enough to not feel anything this time around. My former roommate has an elder sister who is a doctor. Let us call her Dr. V. Dr. V. did her M.B.B.S. at a reputed medical college in Bombay when she experienced stuff straight out of movies based on psychopaths. Dr. V’s parents had started hunting for a single, young, eligible doctor for her when she consented to have an arranged marriage as she did not have a boyfriend. The very first proposal they managed to fish was from a cardiac surgeon. The girl refused him without meeting him. The parents were taken aback. Furthermore, she instructed her parents not to allow a surgeon even in the veranda of the house! This left her folks flabbergasted. She explained her reaction. She had participated in several surgeries where she had witnessed surgeons (young and old) abuse patients under anaesthesia (not penetrative assault of course) and make such debauched and deplorable comments as to be unimaginable to someone with even an iota of decency. On those occasions she had wanted to escape from the operation theatre as she was unable to concentrate on the task at hand and was unwilling to tolerate indecency aimed at the patient and herself. I was left stunned and speechless. Given my paternity, I also felt betrayed. I was extremely embarrassed too (as if the guilt were my own) as the other two girls present at that time made a quick glance in my direction (possibly to gauge my reaction) and looked away. At that moment, I would have given up anything to be told definitively that my father was not a surgeon or a doctor at all! However, that would have made him a quack given that he tells the world that he is a surgeon. Nonetheless, he was and he is a qualified surgeon with verifiable credentials and I had to make my peace with that. Dr. V has now completed her M.D. and she is now married to a M.D. She stuck to her decision of not having a surgeon for a husband.

That exchange had remained in my mind ever since and it continued to torment my soul. I once casually brought up that conversation during a tête-à-tête with my parents and asked my father if surgeons have a reputation for being perverts in the medical community. Their reactions were remarkable. My mother, who was convinced that nobody from her husband’s profession was capable of such a thing, declared Dr. V. to be crazy. My father however was perturbed and disconcerted. He did not say a word and he avoided eye contact for quite some time with his 19 year old daughter. A year or two later, I mentioned the same conversation to a lady doctor in my French class. She admitted that such things are commonplace and it disturbs her that any and every kind of a person, irrespective of character, can become a doctor as long as they score high marks in the medical entrance test and class 12 exams. The doctors who abhor perverse and anti-social behaviour in hospitals and medical colleges often don’t speak up for the lack of conclusive evidence and since student doctors have the additional burden of obtaining their degrees before starting a revolt. My father may not be guilty or even capable of such a crime but he along with this lady doctor friend of mine and Dr. V., is guilty of not protesting on the spot against errant doctors or at least reporting such things to competent authorities. What compounds the gravity of the Louts Hospital rape case in Vashi is the fact that Vishal Vanne is not even a surgeon! He is an ayurvedic doctor and yet had access to an operation theatre where these guys have no business! The Lotus Hospital has rightly been served the show cause notice.

The school and college system does not very actively seek to inculcate correct principles amongst students. Most teachers very conveniently and erringly label high scorers as ‘good and sincere children’ and those who are distracted, average or low scorers as ‘failures’ or ‘wasted’. Such sweeping generalizations have multiple faults of their own but the worst being that we, as a society often fail to acknowledge the fact that even criminals are very sharp, intelligent and clever. Combine this with knowledge, professional and/or social position and the nerve to act out depraved desires and then the likes of Vishal Vanne ruin lives. The same reasoning also applies to our notoriously corrupt bureaucracy, fouled by a large number of unscrupulous IAS, IPS and IRS officers who were all high scoring students during the years they were being ‘educated’. Seemingly trustworthy, unethical people in positions of power (even seemingly insignificant such as that of a surgeon) are precisely those who we refer to when we say in Marathi and Hindi that the monkey has a burning torch i.e. माकडाच्या हातात कुलीत or बंदर के हाथ में जलती मशाल

35 comments:

KS said...

Its quite complicated!!
1st... I dunno if the rape case was confirmed by Forensics and/or was it just the imagination of the patient...coz believe me tht happens... pts are delirious wen they wake up after anaesthesia
i ll cite an example over the pt's ignorance...
this one girl pt had a huge fibroid.. layman terms huge circular mass around the wall of her uterus which was successfully removed by docs and as the normal protocol was shown it to the pt... then the pt was convinced that the doc had removed her whole uterus as she had delayed periods and she was going to tek this matter to the press...
after series of sonographies from so many docs and many attempts to make her privy to the fact tht it was not her uterus, was she convinced that it was not her uterus they had removed...

2nd... Its true and I agree with Dr V tht resident doctors are not so polite with the pts... but u hv to understand the stress level and no of pt every min..
and I used to think that come what may, I will never be like one of them... but three years later and voila.. i m one of them...
there is no one to blame its just HUMAN NATURE... and if u were in their place, u would hv been one of them..


and there is more... i ll post it later..

Aditya said...

GOSH...i must say then that the GYNACS are the worst abusers than the rapists..touching and cutting vaginas dont knw how many times a day..!!

All feel doctors are cruel why should we trust them??? lot many questions keep banging in the head..are the sterlization protocols maintained,legal protocols maintained..etc etc..maat aao yaar we are not forcing you to come to us..you are in pain and agony so you come to us..its the patients who need the doctor and not the other way round..and if you dont have that minimal amount of trust on doctors..sorry you are not welcome..

and i completely agree with your mother that DR. V is crazy..human nature..happens..bullshit..rapes in anasthesia and all..with a team of sisters, ward boys , junior doctors ,assistants, nurses,etc. surrounding and encouraging the lead rapist doctor?? in the OTs??...is it so???this seems to be a gang bang then??Group Sex???group rape rather???does it make sense??

lakhs and crores of doctor might be slogging now when i am writting this comment on ur blog to save some life..you very much see the cruelty of the doctors knife as the proverb says but you fail to understand the kindness behind the cruelty of the doctors knife..

patients is lying unconscious in front of the doctor..its a lot of tension until the patient is revived again for the doctor..doctors have to maintain all the five parameters to keep him unconscious yet alive..if the patient dies in such a state doctor will land up into a medico legal mess...thanx to the critics like you this thing will be glorified...y would a doctor ruin his life time career and status by fucking a patient in anaesthesia..rather he would prefer doing his work..???
no doctors are that stupid to do that...they arent stupid so they are doctors..

tika karna khup sopa ahe...pan kahi tari 'KARNA' khup kathin...kriye veen vachalata vyartha ahe..so better not critisize on the stuff..

vee said...

Hey, Natalia there is one common thing that we share and one uncommon that makes it interesting to comment on your blog... the common thing is that i have a surgeon father too and an anesthetist mother and the uncommon thing is that i have a male's perspective... you are very right about many wrong people being at power and stuff and about several other wrong things that go on in front of our eyes... but this blog is your personal experience in life meeting such people who had been through such situations for example one of my father's patient has my father's photograph in his (devghar) prayer place that's because when others had told him he had few days to live...my father took the risk of operating his tumor and now that man is still alive for more than ten years now... on the other hand a few years ago i had a few bad experiences with my father... so the man who's like a god to somebody may not apply to me in a particular situation. you have been brought up in a marathi family like me i guess so we have a lot of morals taught during our childhood and these define our thoughts. your blog is genuinely good for causing awareness about those who waste their ethics but try and understand this that nature has made man and woman for sexual contact and reproduction so if a surgeon does something to a naked woman lying on his table is probably due to his sexual instinct and sure he crosses his social, ethical and moral limits by doing so, and should be punished for that but that doesn't tell you whether he is a good surgeon or not. can you give a surgeons knife in the hands of some one who is ethical with no skill whatsoever? and how can any body tell that so and so person may or may not act perverted in a given situation? when you see the faces of such people laden with guilt you might tell yourself "look it's written on his face that he is a pervert" but you could have fallen in love with the same man if his thing that he once did never came to light... there are assholes in all fields of life who always try to get what does not belong to them but you should not worry about doctors particularly surgeons being bad nowadays! perversion is everywhere in this world even among women... you should read some articles about mothers of two kids sleeping with another man while her husband is still loyal to her (you know i'm not making this up)... and however binding are the rules regulations and laws made by humans, their natural instinct for sex overrides them many a times in life...to summarize i'm not criticizing your blog but just wanting to let you know that some one may get a wrong idea, after reading your blog, about Surgeons being perverts EXCEPT your father, and that other doctors are insensitive enough not to report that! It would be wise enough if you do not generalize perversion to surgeons cause now you are being unethical to think like that about thousands of good surgeons just because you saw a few perverts who were surgeons too! Well... this is my perspective :)

vee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
vee said...

when you see the faces of such people laden with guilt you might tell yourself "look it's written on his face that he is a pervert" but you could have fallen in love with the same man if his thing that he once did never came to light... there are assholes in all fields of life who always try to get what does not belong to them but you should not worry about doctors particularly surgeons being bad nowadays! perversion is everywhere in this world even among women... you should read some articles about mothers of two kids sleeping with another man while her husband is still loyal to her (you know i'm not making this up)... and however binding are the rules regulations and laws made by humans, their natural instinct for sex overrides them many a times in life...to summarize i'm not criticizing your blog but just wanting to let you know that some one may get a wrong idea, after reading your blog, about Surgeons being perverts EXCEPT your father, and that other doctors are insensitive enough not to report that! It would be wise enough if you do not generalize perversion to surgeons cause now you are being unethical to think like that about thousands of good surgeons just because you saw a few perverts who were surgeons too! Well... this is my perspective :)

vru! said...

hiii..

first of all.. let me congratulate u for uve articulated ur thoughts n perspective very well!
now.. if u ask me.. its very unfortunate that incidents like Lotus hosp rape case occur which tarnish the image of doctors! as appalled as i am abt this event.. i wudnt jump to conclusions like 'surgeons are perverts' or 'doctors arenot trustworthy' bcoz of such events.. i think perversion isnt related to any profession.. its human nature!
Doctors arent Gods.. they are human beings too.. they hav their own flaws n deficiencies.. so.. we shudnt generalize our opinions abt doctors based on one or two happenings..
he was a sick soul.. which has nothing to do with the fact tht he was a doctor.. and it obviously doesnt mean that all doctors are the same! trust me.. this is a noble profession and thankfully there are plenty to prove that right..

and these things are so rampant nowadays. sexual harassment at work place is a well-know concept in corporate settings too.. these guys too are very well educated.. they are engineers and MBA's.. all i want to say is sexual abuse by anyone is not acceptable.. be it a doctor or anyone!

So if anyone is guilty of doing such a thing should get the right punishment.. and ppl MUST stand up.. in any scenario.. an operation theatre or Boss's cabin!

Natalia said...

@Kunal: I am sorry to learn about the troubles you underwent because the patient believed her hallucination.

2ND, Dr. V wasn't talking about doctors being rude. She was troubled by the indecent comments and jokes they cracked about a lady patient under anaesthesia.

@Vee: You come close to understanding my predicament. All doctors and surgeons are definitely not perverts. People do worship doctors and remain grateful throughout their lives because of life-saving medical treatments or surgeries. I've seen these things even with my own dad who has saved lives and continues to do so but the general public ought to made aware that criminals exist even amongst doctors and that they can't be blindly trusted.

@Vru: You are right. Sexual harassment of anyone, irrespective of gender, is unacceptable and should be punished. Perverts exist everywhere, we had some crooks as professors in my agriculture college too but their existence in the medical community is the most disturbing of all.

Natalia said...

Dear Aditya,

You require a separate response given the level of vehemency in your comment.

Point1:
I am disturbed that you have misunderstood my writing. Dr. V never implied that a rape took place in her presence. It is simply not possible in the presence of the "a team of sisters, ward boys , junior doctors ,assistants, nurses,etc" and it is absolutely not possible these people surrounding the imagined errant doctor here would encourage him". I have not suggested this kind of a perversity here. You have unnecessarily exaggerated the incident that Dr. V experienced.

Point 2:
If we don't need a doctor, we will definitely not go to one. However, don't say that you don't need patients because that is false. Your livelihood depends upon them. It is just that there exist anti-social elements in your profession who are more cruel than others because anti-socials because they misuse their training and the trust of their patients. For e.g., someone in a corporate environment is alert and aware that sexual harassment can take place because such things are reported and because corporate executives are not elevated by society to a divine pedestal. They are known to fallible. That is not the case with you guys. Hence, any deviation is a major betrayal.

Point 3:
Given that I see my father often forgoing a night's sleep to save patients, I know how doctors save lives. My father and his friends have spent over three days without food and sleep to operate trauma patients during the riots in Bhiwandi after Indira Gandhi's assassination. Doctors are capable of seemingly super-human tasks when faced with them and I have an example at home. That is precisely the reason you guys command the kind of respect you do. But this is not the only picture. Crimes happen in your profession. When they do not involve penetrative assault, they are difficult to prove and the general public must know that. Period.

Point 4:
My father and his team of doctors once lost a 7 seven year old patient immediately upon administration of anaesthesia even before they made the first incision. I've heard from my dad that once a person is under anasthesia anything can happen for seemingly no rhyme or reason. I know your concerns but I repeat that the truth is that there are certain characters who might take advantage of the proximity between a doctor and a patient and that the public must be aware of it.

Doing is difficult. Talking is easy. Nonetheless, wrongdoing must be talked about and people must be made aware that unimaginable things do happen.

HIMANI said...

Hi Natalia, I think this is a great point and there needs to be a bill of some sort to take care of this problem. I am a physical therapist and come in the closest contact with the patients while they are awake. Maintaining decency is the need for us to keep the practice. Also since I'm at my early stages of practice, I havent come across other PTs taking advantage of their position and license to touch patients but this is more dangerous as the patient is forced to think that this is all a part of care and that he/she is not "forward"-enough to allow them with the treatment.

A friend of mine was once with a reknowned dentist alone (on a Sunday) that she had numerous follow-ups with, for her orthodontic treatment. At the last visit, she made a gesture of gifting him with a Ganpati murti to show her gratitude. The dentist in return gave her the gift of a physical experience she would never forget for life and that made her feel that it could be her fault or her body language that might have instigated the dentist to do so.
Things like this happen even with the patients awake and are ignored just because of the sham decent-tag given to the Doctors. Even if someone dares to talk about it, the response would be with a surprise of "thats impossible how Dr. Patil (eg) could have possibly done it. You must be mistakened"

I'm sorry to hear that Drs use their power for an advantage and get away with it under the pretext of "Its human nature"!!

NiKi said...

Hi Natalia,

I appreciate the time and effort you put in writing your blog. your thoughts are well structured and your opinion well presented. As far as my experience goes, I have been lucky as to not witness any abusive behaviour by surgeons in Operation Theaters. Most doctors were tired and were not at their best behaviour when dealing with patients in the OPD etc., but I haven't witnessed any surgeon in my hospital do anything dis-respectful in the OT. Most of the time we had the radio on and gossiped about how much we hated having so much work, none of which were directed towards the patient. Most of the time the OT is filled with nurses, there is a very small visible area which is operated upon, rest of the area is covered with sterile cloth, all of which make something like rape in the OT difficult. I am not saying that the rape did not occur, it might have, there are perverts in every profession including the medical professions. And lets not just blame the surgeon, I have heard stories about M.D's touching their patients in appropriately and making them uncomfortable. But if someone is examining a breast lump, how do you determine if the doctor is a pervert or the patients has a vivid imagination!

There are perverts in every profession, but their presence in the medical profession is the worst. I'm not sure how you can determine whether or not a person is a pervert when you admit him/her in a program. People change over years. A better way to handle this situation would be to revoke the license of anybody found guilty of such behaviour. But then again one has to be extremely sure, like in the case of KS, USG confirmed the presence of the uterus, but on the other hand something like a rape case becomes very difficult to prove.

dr_reddevil said...

Hi Natalia!
It was good to see you raise another issue. Power is misused in all fields of life. However, I would like to shed some light on surgeons and anaesthetics.
Anaesthetics are called the O.T. Physicians. They don't just sedate the patients but also keep them alive during surgery. It's their job to constanly monitor the vitals of the patients and intervene if necessary. Also,most of the anaesthetics used today create a feeling of amnesia for the patient. So the patient may wake up and complain about something that might not have happened. I am not talking about the rape but I'll give an example.
I was posted in Surgery and this old man was operated for his appendix. When he woke up he was complaining that we removed his testicles.
Surgeons have to operate in the fixed amount of time till the effect of anaesthesia lasts. It's fine for minor procedures but, for major ops it is difficult. One never knows what you will find in the abdomen when you open it up. I would like to give another example. In the same Surgery posting, an emergency opertaion was underway to close a perforation. My Resident found it immediately and even managed to close it but then he found a huge tumour arising from the stomach. The Lecturer had to intervene and what was supposed to be an operation for managing a perforation turned to be a much bigger sugery lasting for hours.
What I mean is that the atmosphere in the O.T. is as much tense as it is lite. There are two surgeons, two anaesthetics, three to four sisters, interns, students, ward boys, Mamas for every surgery. It's impossible for a surgeon to be a pervert in such situations. Surgeons would rather focus on the job at hand than to indulge in heinous acts.
Whatever happened with your friend was just a one-off incident. I agree there are voyeurs everywhere in our society but that doesn't mean you will brand all doctors as perverts. You cannot belittle a doctor's skill and efforts for a handful of freaks. Unfortunately, perverts exist in all walks of life in India. There will be people who will continue to abuse power. you have to just give them just what they deserve. Incidents like these need to be reported at the earliest opportunity to the concerned authorities.
All doctors are not bad. Whatever they do is for the benefit of the patients.
People like the accused surgeon need to be ruthlessly punished.
Nice reading your blog Natalia. Hope to hear more from you over other subjects as well.

Aditya said...

no one seems to agree with the blog you wrote it seems..its outrageous to brand every doctor as a pervert..
talking about the "seperate" explanation you gave me i ll soon upload a response to that as i get little time on account of my dental practice..i guess you have misunderstood what i want to say..no worries i ll explain it to you again..

Aditya said...

@himani..if your friend would have been truthful enough to her ownself..this thought of making a wrong gesture wouldnt have arised in her mind..she had something running at the back of her mind so she felt she gave a wrong gesture..if u are true to ur own self u can be true to neone in this world..

HIMANI said...

@Aditya - I dont know you, but please dont give me that bullshit. And I think you prove my point," if the dentist did something to the patient; its the patient's fault"!! This accusation is exactly what girls fear and dont come up in the community to point out a single Dr. or any person for that matter and then I dont see any harm with Natalia writing a blog by generalizing the medical community. I hope (being a Dr yourself) you must be knowing about killing bacteria by global antibacterial treatment, something similar applies here.
Who in the world thinks that gifting a Ganpati idol would be a wrong gesture if it was not followed by such an experience?? Would touching a patient inappropriately (Let me know if you want the specifics) be your first reaction if a patient gifted you with Ganpati murti??
I doubt your simple judgement of situations, so please dont self-qualify yourself to give people that bullshit about being true to yourself and all!

Aditya said...

@himani..that is not at all bullshit...women always have a bad habit of gaining sympathy on basis of their womanhood..portraying themselves as poor
helpless woman..saamaj kya bolega and all the crap stuff..rape hua to ek mard hi rape karta hai???? is it so???

as you tell me the dentist was wrong..do u have a proof the woman in question did not instigate the doctor??
the woman in question obviously will say i did not instigate the dentist why would someone take a blame on himself/herself????

because of such happening doctors are afraid..saab ke liye itna karo fiir bhi aake doctor ki hi laga dete hai...

u give examples of people and friends being slaughtered by doctors physically mentally???
i can tell you cases of doctors whose careers have been ruined because of such stuff...the lady patient came in the clinic removed her top and started blackmailing the doctor, give me all the money you have or i ll sue you for the rape attempt..tumhi ekhad dusra example deta..maza friend barobar asa zala mhanun sagle doctor raandibaaj..me tumhala doctors chi list deu shakto jyanche career barbad zale ahet hya baykancha faltugirimule..kalala???dont pretend to be too innocent..ok??

we doctors are forced to have CC TV cameras in our clinics for our own safety...do u know this????

and u call this bullshit???
all woman are innocent...BLOODY HELL I SAY WOMEN ARE BITCHES...

to jamana gela madam..bayka kahi kami nahi ahet..

Aditya said...

@natalia

POINT 1: infact you did not specify exactly wat Dr. V has experienced...pls read your article again. so as you have mentioned "these" things happening in your article i am free to think in the way i want..if you dont want me to exaggerate then be specific in what you write..in one of ur replies you say Dr. V was troubled by the comments of the doctors...well thats amazing; is you friend Dr. V so emotionally weak or something, not able to digest that,ragging nahi hua kabhi i guess..lolzz??engineer comment kare to chalta hai..doctor kare to galat hai???

POINT 2: you are absolutely wrong..doctors dnt need to depend on the patients for livelihood..we can do research..we can do academics..nanotechnology..CAD CAM..we have more applied knowledge of microbilogy than any microbiology graduate..we can go into forensics..stem cell technology..biostatasticians..bioanalysts..social service..no one does social servie more than doctors..even i can tell you a list of doctor who have a lavish lifestyles and their livelihood is no way concerned with their medical practice or their medical education...its the passion we have towards serving the needy that keeps us loyal to our practice..

any doctor has never said "raise us to divine pedestal"..its the love of people that has done this..and we do respect their love..not the stupid criticism you do..
swami vivekananda says"konya eka vyakticha 5 minitanantarch 100% binchuk vaidyakiya bhavisha vartavnara yantra tantra kiva shashtra astitvat nahi. maatra anubhav, kaushalya, taark, vaprun ekhadi goshta ghadnya adhi upayojana karnarya doctor la suddha kahi maanavi maryada astat. to saada sarva kaal binchuk asu shakat nahi. mhanun lokani suddha doctor na dev samju naye, tasech gunhegaarhi.." amhi hya vidhanache palan karto ani amhi svathala dev samjat nahi pan tumhi gunhegarach samajta...ho ki nahi???

but its the love of society that they call us god..70-80 year old patients have touched my feet..for some painless dental extractions i have done..you wont believe this...

POINT 3: Madam you are wrong they are very much penetrative...read my reply i gave to himani madam..bad part always exists in every profession but there is no need to generalize the bad things happening around..mind you patients are not always good..your dad is a qualified doctor..you dont know enough about the field to comment on it..i would rather respect your dad's comments than yours..

POINT 4: wrong doing must be talked about by not generalizing them..what do you mean by you all doctors?????you talk about doctors' wrong doings openly and then why dont you expect us to talk about the patients' wrong doings openly..??then your patient confidentiality thing comes in between..doesnt it??i remember you asking me this question...when i uploaded some photos of my patient on net..the patient didnt have any problem with it..they were so happy i treated her 2 year old daughter and relieved her from tremendous pain..why the hell its bothering you???is my patient any way related to you???has he approached you for any assistance or guidance??what right you have to ask me about my patient??isnt it true???

Aditya said...

@natalia

POINT 1: infact you did not specify exactly wat Dr. V has experienced...pls read your article again. so as you have mentioned "these" things happening in your article i am free to think in the way i want..if you dont want me to exaggerate then be specific in what you write..in one of ur replies you say Dr. V was troubled by the comments of the doctors...well thats amazing; is you friend Dr. V so emotionally weak or something, not able to digest that,ragging nahi hua kabhi i guess..lolzz??engineer comment kare to chalta hai..doctor kare to galat hai???

POINT 2: you are absolutely wrong..doctors dnt need to depend on the patients for livelihood..we can do research..we can do academics..nanotechnology..CAD CAM..we have more applied knowledge of microbilogy than any microbiology graduate..we can go into forensics..stem cell technology..biostatasticians..bioanalysts..social service..no one does social servie more than doctors..even i can tell you a list of doctor who have a lavish lifestyles and their livelihood is no way concerned with their medical practice or their medical education...its the passion we have towards serving the needy that keeps us loyal to our practice..

any doctor has never said "raise us to divine pedestal"..its the love of people that has done this..and we do respect their love..not the stupid criticism you do..
swami vivekananda says"konya eka vyakticha 5 minitanantarch 100% binchuk vaidyakiya bhavisha vartavnara yantra tantra kiva shashtra astitvat nahi. maatra anubhav, kaushalya, taark, vaprun ekhadi goshta ghadnya adhi upayojana karnarya doctor la suddha kahi maanavi maryada astat. to saada sarva kaal binchuk asu shakat nahi. mhanun lokani suddha doctor na dev samju naye, tasech gunhegaarhi.." amhi hya vidhanache palan karto ani amhi svathala dev samjat nahi pan tumhi gunhegarach samajta...ho ki nahi???

but its the love of society that they call us god..70-80 year old patients have touched my feet..for some painless dental extractions i have done..you wont believe this...

Aditya said...

POINT 3: Madam you are wrong they are very much penetrative...read my reply i gave to himani madam..bad part always exists in every profession but there is no need to generalize the bad things happening around..mind you patients are not always good..your dad is a qualified doctor..you dont know enough about the field to comment on it..i would rather respect your dad's comments than yours..

POINT 4: wrong doing must be talked about by not generalizing them..what do you mean by you all doctors?????you talk about doctors' wrong doings openly and then why dont you expect us to talk about the patients' wrong doings openly..??then your patient confidentiality thing comes in between..doesnt it??i remember you asking me this question...when i uploaded some photos of my patient on net..the patient didnt have any problem with it..they were so happy i treated her 2 year old daughter and relieved her from tremendous pain..why the hell its bothering you???is my patient any way related to you???has he approached you for any assistance or guidance??what right you have to ask me about my patient??isnt it true???

HIMANI said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Himanshu said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Himanshu said...

@ Natalia ;
SATYA HE PACHAYALA NEHEMI JAD ASATA, KARAN TE KATU ASATA……..why don’t you accept that……why did you delete my reply then?????.....tula mahiti aahe ka ki tujha he jahal article vachun doctor chya image cha kevadha motha apaman hoil……ekikade loka doctor la dev manatat aani tyach devala tu asha swarupat samaja samor aanates????...................there are many rape cases that had occurred in the farm too…..but we don’t say that ALL farmers are rapist…….then why u???

Now let me give you one example …..
Dr. XYZ was the successful BHMS that is Bachelor of Homeopathic Medicine and Surgery working in the particular area, even he treated patients by giving them injections though that was not allowed in his practise…..still his only aim was to relieve the pain and the trouble of patients…patient’s pain was relieved quickly by those injections ……..also he gave them homeopathic medications too for complete eradication of the diseases…….But one patient, aged 80, came to his clinic for very high fever, and the Dr gave him injectable antipyretics, after that his became very normal and happy ……..but just before leaving his clinic , unfortunately he had undergone severe heart attack , and he died……..His family members doubted the Dr. since he was not supposed to use injections,………………..his registration was taken off, and he was send to jail……..so doctors have many many many tentions other than doing physical experience…….doctors have to be very careful while doing the treatment of a patient……..He just can’t think of raping somebody…………………., for him the registration that he got after many efforts is the most important ……..
Now I have another real example that had happened just 12 days back……
On Saturday, 16 oct 2010 the police had arrested a cane farmer who allegedly raped a sickly teenager several times after pretending he was a church pastor who could heal her………since this incidence occurred by the farmer …and he also misused the trust of innocent girl………...according to you I must say that all people who are related with the field of agriculture are Criminals……..is it really so?????
Then why are u making the generalised statements just looking at one incident…..

Himanshu said...

@ Natalia
Point 1 ; You told about Dr. V. that She had participated in several surgeries where she had witnessed surgeons (young and old) abuse patients under anaesthesia (not penetrative assault of course) and make such debauched and deplorable comments as to be unimaginable to someone with even an iota of decency……………………Actually You are combining two different stories unnecessarily….The rape of a Vashi lady patient under anaesthesia by Vishal Vanne and Disturbance felt by emotionally compromised Dr. V. by the comments of the surgeons about anaesthetised patient…….No doubt, Dr. Vishal Vanne should be punished hard for what had he done if that is proved, but on the other hand you are making unnecessary issue of the comments passed by the doctors in the OT……u think that those comments are serious?????why don’t you understand that they might have just kidding…..Did they really rape that lady after that????is it so???? Didn’t they treat the lady successfully????? why you didn’t mention about the success of that treatment.……because you just want to criticize the doctors…..nothing else…..why do you write this article so aggressively……ka Doctors hya image chi vaat lavanyacha prayatna kartes, tujhe dad doc asun sudhha????

Point 2 : Natalia …can u just elaborate your point that…. {It is just that there exist anti-social elements in medical profession who are more cruel than others because anti-socials because they misuse their training and the trust of their patients}…….In case Dr. V you only mentioned that the rape was not possible because of presence of whole team of sisters, ward boys, anaesthetists etc……..But the Farmer for example can easily Rape one of his female workers in his huge farm as in mentioned above……….since she was a worker she also kept faith on the farmer, so here farmer misused her trust on himself…….so what is More cruel according to you?????? The ACTUAL RAPE or THE COMMENTS about the rape…….

Himanshu said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Himanshu said...

@Himani ;
I absolutely agreed the point you have put forward ……the Ganapati murti case…..But remember exactly opposite cases are many in number……..for eg putting off the dress in front of doctor by lady in his clinic, and blackmailing him to give money otherwise she would complain about Rape attempt on doctor..
Tali hi Kadhichh Eka hatane wajat nahi …..he lakshat thev….
Secondly, you have said that killing bacteria by global antibacterial treatment, something similar applies here…….but for killing particular pathogenic bacteria, if you give generalised broad spectrum strong antibiotic then that will kill even the useful bacteria as well……..exactly this thing applies here……for one bad incident of doctor if you make harsh statements for all doctors then that harms the images of all doctors…..

Aditya said...

@ himani satya sangitla taar faar jhombla ka???
truth always remains madam...i ll keep on posting the post i posted earlier..and u keep on delelting..

KS said...

@ Natalia... first of all congrats on this blog!! such practices do occur in the communtiy and thnx for putting light on it...
I just wish that u would hv given more examples of other professions as well.. coz ABUSE OF POWER PREVAILS EVERYWHERE.. not jst in the prof of DOCS...

Also remember... Docs are from the community as well... they are people like u and me.. not chosen ones... and the bone of contention is.. they are going to be perverts in the Doc comm too...
and its wrong if a person, esp a doc (coz its a noble prof) abuses power... but it does happen..
and according to my frnd's antiseptic thoery.. pointing out to such ignominies of some ppl should not give a bad name to the doc community ...

Aditya said...

you should not delete the comments so conviniently natalia...its wrong...you should have guts to face people when u write such articles..understand???

you should rather remove your article from internet and keep your thoughts with yourself...

Chandan Mulherkar said...

The single most important fact in this article was the lack of proper moral education at the school level, because of which such problems arise.
Instead of discussing on that like mature adults, some people here have presented excellent proof of the same fact.
Shame on you.

@Natalia- Please don't even think about deleting the article, even the comments. This is too good. Too bad actually, but too good.

Natalia said...

Dear Himanshu,

I had to delete your first comment because your language was inappropriate.

Dear Aditya,

You are arguing well and hence I won't delete your comments but it is seriously disturbing to read some things written by you.

I've discussed the things that I wrote here with my parents and even they agree that dealing with such criminals is difficult since if the patient is mistaken the doctor will unnecessarily suffer.

"Women are bitches" is what you say. Now that includes all women you are related to by blood.

Now about doctors diversifying into research for other means of livelihood. That holds true for a lot of other people. Many business people do branch out into other things once their core business is well set. Another question, to whom do you plan to sell the end products of your research endeavors if not patients?

The way you guys have reacted show that you have no intentions of ever committing depraved acts. However, the problem that there are some anti-social elements amongst you and I found out about such people from doctors themselves. There are other doctors who have commented on my post like KS, Vee,Vru, Himani, Niki and Dr_reddevil who agree that such things do happen but that all doctors aren't like that and that is definitely the case. All doctors are not anti-social elements.

It is outrageous that you suggest that Himani's acquaintance might have provoked the doctor to treat her badly. Such people don't need any provocation. The first opportunity for wrongdoing is enough for them. Do not try to put the blame on the victim themselves although I strongly believe that false accusations should be ruled out and strongly dealt with. Please check out how "Doctors without Borders" is trying to emphatically helping out victims of sexual abuse.

Aditya and Himanshu,
In other countries, many doctors and lawyers are proactively coming
out to deal with rogue elements in the medical community, especially because they believe that sexual abuse by doctors is under-reported. Google the following terms:

1. Solomon & Relihan Doctor Sexual Abuse

2. Rod Moser Sexual Abuse by Medical Professional

3. http://www.zielkelaw.com/profile/articles-publications/secrets-in-the-exam-room.asp

4. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/2006_04_fri_02.shtml

You better not become SO vehement against patients themselves because there are also men and children amongst victims. You might do well to suggest what can be dome to better deal with erring doctors and how errant patients can be tackled. Maybe we can start something positive here together.

shashank said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
shashank said...

hi Natalia,
was quite upset reading ur blog not much by ur narrated incidence but by vulnerabilityof ur mind to be easily moulded by external factors.
u cant generalise the misdeeds of a single person to whole community of Doctors.
being doctor u must also know that patients hallucinate while they are regaining conciousness once the effect of anaesthesia weaning off.
so unless proven u cant make a solid opinion about any1 and publicise it.
Even if this incidence is true it is a personal failure on part of that convict to have a weak mental constraint and weak character.
and as u said he was not even an MBBS. I dont think a person with weak constraint and self control can even sustain the hardships during his/her journey as a medical student.
Surgeons i do agree are big time boozers and may have habits which is their personal choice but they do respect their patients.
have faith in self ,in what u r doing and also in ur colleagues.
as in dis faternity u constantly need guidance from ur colleagues.
all the best...happy divali.....

Natalia said...

Dear Shashank,
I am not a doctor. All doctors are not crooks but those who are, are extremely dangerous and often go unreported for years or decades together because some patients are not too sure how to go about the case or not even sure if they were actually abused. And it's quite complicated with hallucinations. The medical community rightly and painfully handle cases of hallucinations properly to calm patients but there have been rascals who have taken advantage of patients' weak mental state although such cases are not numerous.

I felt the need to write about this because such things happen and very often go unreported for decades together.

Look at these links:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35528101/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1090914/Doctor-fondled-breast-woman-feared-shed-broken-finger.html

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/newsreleases/release.php?id=19853


I intended to start a debate, get different point of views and raise awareness. The first two objectives have been partly achieved. If you go through previous comments, you'll also see disgusting and wrong presumptions about sexual assault victims amongst the medical community itself. Hence there is a need to speak out against crooks even more fiercely.

syeds said...

Federal and state governments have too much power and too little restraint. In fact, much of this site is devoted to the endless task of focusing on the ideas of government abuse and bad.







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syeds said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
syeds said...

Nothing will happen by writin articles or comments here,, Govt should take an action.. for that action required not words..

-sd-

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